Zangief is finally BACK from the dark ages of Super Street Fighter 4. Though far from the days of facerolling characters through random splashing, spamming j.mk and scary knockdown mix ups, he is much better than the SSF4 version where virtually everything is nerfed, but nevertheless weaker than his vanilla counterpart. As of SSF4 AE, I consider him to be a B+/A- character with a few advantageous matchups, a bunch of playable matchups and only a few unplayable matchups. Depending on how you play him, he’s generally still more of a footsie character than a mixup character. Undoubtedly some matches became harder, while some matches became easier. The differences are attributed to more than just the lack of knockdown or the extended range of SPD, but rather also about other subtle differences such as the changes in tech timing.

A.   Changelog since vanilla

This list is cumulative from his changes from vanilla for people who have not played too much console. I’ve posted a speculative article previously on what I think the changes mean for Gief in SSF4 here (http://www.round1.sg/forums/index.php?topic=1246.0) and his AE changes here (http://www.round1.sg/forums/index.php?topic=1246.30) Most of my predictions are on target, though overall not as optimistic as I have hoped.

Normal Moves

  • C.LK has been changed from ~3f to ~4f startup.
    - This makes it a lot less effective as an anti-jumping tool and as a crouch tech tool. It has also made c.lk x4 combos a lot harder, though not as hard as SSF4. To cope with the change, Gief players may have to change their crouch tech timing.
    - For me, the biggest issue was that c.lk effectively became a lot less reliable on post-exgreenhand, as well as in situations where I am basically competing for frame advantage. Allow me to illustrate why its such a nuisance. For example, after performing an ex-greenhand on dictator, I am effectively +1f. At this juncture, I have several standard choices including c.lk (~4f), s.mp (~4f) and SPD (~2f), while characters with 3f wake up moves (e.g. dictator c.lk / boxer c.lk) could also mash their 3f moves which would then either usually outpoke or trade with Gief, effectively neutralizing one of Zangief’s safest options. Furthermore, you can no longer reliably stop people from jumping with c.lk after ex greenhand combo or light spd as most people’s jump frames are 4f moves.
    - One could argue that Zangief can just play 50/50 and switch up between SPD or whatever, but at the end of the day if you want consistency in your gameplay, then AE Gief’s would need to change up their gameplay by incorporating more s.mp and whatnot.
  • Range is increased on Far Standing Hard Punch.  - No real difference here, I still don’t use it as s.hk  is still a better poke.
  • Overall damage decrease for his normals. - This is across the board, and AE has rebalanced the damage ratio again so while its not a real big problem, it has decreased Gief’s footsie power.

Special Moves

  • EX Banishing Flat (Greenhand) no longer knocks down. Instead Zangief is +1 on hit after the opponent is hit.
    - Really really sucks, Zangief can’t knock down as easily now, but it arguably pushes the opponent to the corner faster. This has made the Sagat matchup a real hell in AE, because in Vanilla 1 ex greenhand knockdown means you could turn the match around, but in AE it doesn’t mean jack. Furthermore a lot of matches that were fairly easy wins in vanilla/super because of Zangief’s mixups such as Claw or Boxer became harder in the way that it requires the user to compensate the lack of frequent mixups with better footsies… though with the exception of the increase in range and damage for light SPD, Zangief’s footsies became generally weaker due to overall footsie damage reduction and a lack of knockdown on exgreenhand buffers, making him a lot less threatening.
  • Counterhit Greenhands will now knock down the opponent.
    - Doesn’t make up for the loss of EX GH knockdown, but its still a consolation. On various occasions, I find that its better to yomi and perform a normal greenhand after an exgreenhand to catch backdashing opponents than to do another ex because it knocksdown.
  • SPD damage was decreased in SSF4, but has since been increased again in AE.
    - As other char’s overall damage has decreased, this means Zangief’s comparative damage has gone up in this area. This is a much needed buff because SPD dmg was just way too low in Super.
  • Light Punch SPD range is increased. See the difference below.
    -Very good, this is absolutely a good change as Giefs can footsie and punish much better now. Generally speaking you can still catch the opponent after the opponent blocks a s.lk/s.lp at tip range (assuming opponent isn’t moving back). 2008 Zangief Style just became a lot more threatening.


  • Opponents can duck and punish under Lariat after the first spin has passed. Old news but basically this makes it less abusable against large sized characters, most notably Sagat and Abel. Strategies based on baiting lariat and punishing Zangief is a lot easier to execute now so Gief players need to sharpen their gameplay more as to not throw careless lariats out.
  • Lariat Hitbox has changed. I find that the changed hitbox makes lariat unable to AA a lot of things that are previously lariattable in Vanilla. Players must learn to compensate by either disciplining themselves to block or Anti Air with other tools.

Ultra 2

  • It is possible to alter Siberian Blizzard’s traveling distance by putting in a forward/backward input between Ultra freeze and start-up. For forward direction, it can travel much further than before, so it’s easier to grab backdashing opponents. While the ground recovery on whiff has increased, we see it as a buff considering its possibility on controlling the distance.
    - This has made U2 a much more viable ultra. I recommend switching to U2 for some characters. But personally I still like to use U1 more because its more guaranteed. (e.g. using whiff c.lk 720s to punish whiffed uppercuts). Using U2 in most situations entails a risk. At the end of the day I still think it boils down to personal style as well as how your opponent plays. For example, Cantona (who I generally model my gameplay after) plays a more consistent and safe style, thus uses U1 more often than U2, where as Mahoshojo Zangitan is somewhere in between and Itazan uses U2 a lot more than either of the aforementioned players.
    Also depending on player, if you know the opponent are more liberal with uppercuts, I find it safer to use U1 to punish them. However if your opponent is the type that plays very safe (e.g. textbook safe Fei Long or Sagat, you might as well use U2 as there will be little chances to use U1).

Other changes:

  • Depending on distance, EX GH on block will be unpunishable by throw as Gief as Gief would be outside the opponent’s throw range, rather the opponent would have to punish with a combo instead. The frame disadvantage on block for Gief is the same.
    - Opponents should be punishing with a combo anyway, but for players that only try to throw, you will find that you can get away with some things / can mash out a SPD against them. People may also have to get used to punishing 1 hit-ex greenhand as well.
  • Jumping trajectory has changed. His jump is less floaty and less horizontal.
    - A.k.a not as good as compared to vanilla, his jump is crap. e.g. j.mk and what not is also worse because of this.
  • Health has decreased from 1200 to 1100.  :(
    Self explanatory… Coupled with less footsie damage, trades aren’t as good as before.


B.   So what do these changes mean?

Everybody have their own unique gameplans. Some would favor fast rushdown, or just straight out turtling. For me, the name of my gameplan in vanilla (with a few character exceptions) was to “score a knockdown without taking too much damage”.

Good knockdowns (ex SPD and suplex) are really a luxury now, you can’t rely on scoring a good knockdown every game. However when you do get a one off(e.g. off suplex, lariat, counterhit greenhand, ex spd), the mixups are still as effective as before.

With the no knockdown changes, I feel that is absolutely vital for Gief players to (1) maximize the use of his new SPD range, (2) be able to do s.mp/s.lk links consistently, (3) up the level of their footsies, (4) be able to read the opponent’s behavior on knockdown and resets better and (5) get used to how the ~4f lk sucks.

When I started out playing Zangief, I carefully crafted my style to that of Cantona’s -> mainly minimizing unnecessary risks by maximizing Gief’s footsies (e.g. avoid yomi ex-greenhand or SPD/other risky moves). However I find that his style is much less effective and threatening in AE as opposed to vanilla version where a Gief could just play safe until one knockdown.

Not saying that Cantona’s style isn’t viable anymore, its just weakened, and frankly not effective anymore against some matchups (e.g. Sagat, dhalsim etc). Recently I’ve really switched up on how I play, and its usually just dependent on how well I read my opponent’s behavior – meaning I would just adjust my risk taking behavior accordingly depending on how well I’ve read the opponent’s play style and behavior. But anyway I’ll write an article in the future on “styles of Zangief” and how adjustable one can be in order to fight his opponent to better explain this meta-game concept.

So in conclusion I find that Zangief is still very much a viable character, with mostly even and slightly advantageous matchups. While he’s not clearly a top tier character, he is still a force to be reckoned with and can still produce decent results.